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Fickle ([info]fickle) wrote,
@ 2009-08-12 23:25:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood: predatory
Entry tags:totally: wtf?!, world: culture

pay no attention to this
Backstory: Following exchange stems from a comment this post on race and colorblindness. The first comment is the comment I responded to, and then I got a PM that I tried to reply to, only to find that PMs couldn't be sent to her. Ergo, posting my response here for her to read.

Juliet_Winters:

Christianity seems to be the best practical system I've seen for drawing disparate peoples together. The desire for revenge is or should be set aside in the name of God. Yes, yes, there are many counter examples, but that's the way it's supposed to play out and that's the way I've seen it play out.


Me:
Of course! Christianity, not Islam or Buddhism or Judaism or any of the other religions around!

I mean, Buddhism, which has never had a single war fought in its name and explicitly forbids the sort of crazy-ass conversion where Christians invade other countries and tear down the temples/mosques of those countries is totally not a better choice.

Personally, I'm an atheist. Not a Buddhist. I just find it ridiculous whenever people suggest religion as a panacea for everything.


Juliet_Winters, via PM:
You had one of the more civil notes on Jagi's page, so I'm answering you here.

As you are an atheist, your answer did not surprise me.

However, as I am a Christian I do believe that the answer to much of what is wrong with the world is to be found with Christ.

For a long time I was in essence a Unitarian and would have said that really any variation of a religion that was peaceable enough could be the foundation for better understanding.

That's true to a point, but since I actually do believe in one religion rather than another I can not in all honesty recommend what I consider to be a false one.

Have you read the New Testament?
If you read the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and/or John) you might be surprised at what is written there and what is not.

Jesus never advocated for war. He did however recommend that you give your government what it asks of you, presumably whether that be taxes or military service. Had he wanted to, like Mohammahed, he could have set himself up as the head of a religion that would have reaped much gold and wives for himself with glory for his family everlasting. He had a faction that was ready to do that for him.
But he didn't.

Christian brothers and sisters of all colors worshipping together is a great, good thing. An amazing thing. A miraculous thing. Even 25 years ago, they said it couldn't be done. But one of Christ's essential teachings is forgiveness. Another is humility.
If there is sufficient forgiveness and humility between the parties involved, then there will be peace. These words don't hurt either:

John 13:34-35 (New International Version)

34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

The trolls on Jagi's blog call her many names most of which stem from their disbelief in her naivete. But Christians are naive. And Jagi is a Christian. Note how she has not hit back at any of them though I am sure it would be tempting to do so, particularly when they call her an idiot and worse.


Me:
I'm not really a fan of conversing over PMs -- I'd much rather use a journal entry if you want to continue this conversation.

Whatever Jesus preached matters less than what his followers did and do in his name. His words may be of peace but if what people do in his name is invade, destroy, loot, rape and kill, then that is the impression that people will have of Christianity. That is the lasting damage, the legacy, of your religion.

Consider my country, Sri Lanka. You offered me a quotation from your Holy Book, so I offer you one from a history book:

Many lowland Sinhalese were forced to convert to Christianity while the coastal Moors were religiously persecuted and forced to retreat to the Central highlands. The Buddhist majority disliked Portuguese occupation and its influences and welcomed any power who might rescue them. In 1602, therefore, when the Dutch captain Joris Spilberg landed, the king at Kandy appealed to him for help.

The first casualty of the Portuguese colonialism was all the indigenous religions. The viharas and temples were destroyed. The famous Sivan temples of Galle and Trincomalee were razed and the remnants were used to build the Portuguese forts in those areas. Only four Buddhist priests were left alive in the Kotte kingdom. The Moors that had control of the coastal trade were religiously persecuted and their mosques were destroyed.


That is in no way bringing together people of diverse backgrounds. Attempting to force everyone to be just like you, to worship your god, is stifling diversity. If you're going to preach humility and forgiveness, I'd suggest that you practice it.

Your friend could admit that her words were wrong and hurtful and that by saying people should be colorblind, she was in essence saying that everyone should be the same. Colorblind makes the default white; if you say we are all the same color, what you are doing is erasing our backgrounds and your experiences, but assuming that we will conform to your experiences and attitudes.

That would be practicing humility. Listening to other people and taking their words into account instead of blocking it out and calling anyone who disagrees with you trolls. Being naive stops working as an excuse when she's had people try to explain the reality of the situation to her at the panel and in her journal. There's a point at which it becomes willful ignorance and she's crossed that point already.

She's not the martyr here. She's the one being hurtful. Suggesting that other people convert to Christianity isn't a helpful tactic and it derails from the actual issue.

(Post a new comment)

Followed your link from ElJay-land
[info]lady-erin.livejournal.com
2009-08-15 02:51 am UTC (link)
To add: She claims Christians are to be naive.

This is untrue.

Naive, to quote Webster, means:
1 : marked by unaffected simplicity
2 a : deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgment; especially : credulous
b : not previously subjected to experimentation or a particular experimental situation ; also : not having previously used a particular drug (as marijuana)
c : not having been exposed previously to an antigen
3 a : self-taught, primitive
b : produced by or as if by a self-taught artist

Christians are commanded to "have the faith of a child" - in short, they should indeed trust their elders, but they should be forever questioning, forever attempting to understand the world around them.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Followed your link from ElJay-land
[info]fickle
2009-08-16 09:46 am UTC (link)
At first, I totally thought you'd be her and I was amazed she was actually replying instead of wrapping herself in "I won't touch this, the poor misguided soul is beyond helping!" superiority.

And what you said about the 'faith of a child' sounds a lot better than the whole 'I WILL NOT LEARN NO MATTER HOW MANY PEOPLE TRY TO EDUCATE ME ON MY RACISM LA LA LA LA LA'.

Thanks. <3

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Followed your link from ElJay-land
[info]lady-erin.livejournal.com
2009-08-16 10:10 pm UTC (link)
Heh, yeah she PM'ed me too and I'm like...no. Own your words in public.

You're welcome! I *do* have my issues with Christianity - but I was raised with it and did go to a Catholic school for some of my college career and was met with truly awesome nuns who were like...not evil. My issues with Christianity tend to be more with the Protestant branch than the differing flavors of Catholic and Catholic-like Protestant (although they aren't totally immune) where ignorance and ethnocentrism are seen as "innocence" and something to be maintained.

(Reply to this) (Parent)



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